Brick on West 4th Street

[hanjin1]

how historic of them

[Debbie Thompson]

It was my understanding that 4th Street would remain brick, even when repaired

It was supposed to be, Chris. Then the City changed their minds. Louise passed along the bad news, along with the "solution" of the brick crosswalks. We've been told SPAR signed off on it.

Now, here's the question. These streets are over 100 years old, and just now being replaced. How often does an asphalt street need replacing? And we are told brick streets are not economical. Huh?

Please contact RAP. I was told the homeowners on Elizabeth Place had to pay quite a bit and have an "expert" to come show them how to lay the bricks down (you need an expert for that?)

However, I wasn't told that by RAP, so someone please check with them directly.

[macboots]

I'm checking with RAP and will let everyone know what their solution was and what is feasible for us. Thanks for the POC Bill!

I think we are all in agreement that we want the brick to stay. I'm not an engineer though and can't speak on how that would work with the new drainage system.

I'm also quite certain that brick lasts much longer than asphalt. But you can also repair and patch asphalt much easier than brick should, say, the road heave or you have to pull part up for repairs to buried lines, cables, sewage, etc. I sincerely doubt that offsets the savings of brick over asphalt in the long run. But the city is motivated to balance *this* year's budget and not by long term cost savings over decades. I'm not saying that's right, just saying it is how it is.

I also think enough time has gone by that the plan needs revisiting anyhow. SPAR leadership has changed and there has been a lot of turnover on 4th street.

Cheers,

Will

[macboots]

Crosswalks would not likely use up all the brick pulled out. That brick should stay in the neighborhood, not go to the contractor's brother's father-in-law to make a new driveway!!! Not kidding, happens waaaay too often.

No doubt... personally I find the brick crosswalk thing a bit funny. 4th street is not so heavily trafficked that it needs crosswalks. Now Pearl St on the other hand...

If this plan goes through I half expect all that historic brick to disappear somewhere, and either end up with stamped concrete crosswalks or no crosswalks at all.

[Lisa Simon]

This issue was handled through HPC years ago. Due to the neighborhood's historic designation, the entity in charge of the project had to propose it in front of the HPC. Part of their plan was to do away with the brick street as they said it was cost prohibitive to redo. Several neighbors were in attendance to fight for the brick, I remember Frank Noonan being relentless and fighting his heart out. Bottom line the presenter, (JEA, city contractor) I don't remember at this point, said no way, no how, it wasn't going to happen. I believe it was Louise who brought up the crosswalk/roundabout idea. They agreed to reuse some of the brick, probably to appease us and thats how we ended up with the plan we have today.

[nvrenuf]

When JEA did the pipe bursting to every lot on our street, they pulled up a bunch of brick, claimed it would be returned but was not. I raised holy hell and asked Dr Gaffney to step in. The brick was returned and put in place by Trent Contracting (Mr Trent was very helpful). JEA just doesn't WANT to include it in their projects. Of course the old patches are still there from the work they've done over the years but these huge new sections were refilled with brick.

[Julie Anne]

This issue was handled through HPC years ago. Due to the neighborhood's historic designation, the entity in charge of the project had to propose it in front of the HPC. Part of their plan was to do away with the brick street as they said it was cost prohibitive to redo. Several neighbors were in attendance to fight for the brick, I remember Frank Noonan being relentless and fighting his heart out. Bottom line the presenter, (JEA, city contractor) I don't remember at this point, said no way, no how, it wasn't going to happen. I believe it was Louise who brought up the crosswalk/roundabout idea. They agreed to reuse some of the brick, probably to appease us and thats how we ended up with the plan we have today.

What was the point in proposing it (the design) before HPC if they were not going to be held accountable? I get confused with this a lot. So you go to HPC, but don;t have to follow the design guidelines? Or is it just the city (via JEA) that does not have to follow the historic guidelines? If this was a homeowner or business owner they woudl be denied correct?

*edited my english LOL!

[jbm32206]

I'm with you 100%, in that the historic guidelines should, without a doubt, be followed by all, not just residents.

[macboots]

Looking at ways to move towards a new plan to save the brick. I think if we have a petition with 100 or so names on it to present to the city, that will help us move in the right direction. We also need a contractor estimate on cost to repair the brick vs. pull it all up and lay down asphalt. Once we have some $$$ figures to look at, we can anticipate or head off some of the arguments coming out of the city/JEA.

I think tomorrow at First Friday would be a great time to get a start on a petition. I will put it together, but don't have any experience on this. The petition will say something along the lines of:

We residents of Springfield are committed to maintaining the historic character of our neighborhood. This includes our remaining brick streets of Perry and West 4th Street. We are opposed to any plan that involves taking up our historic brick streets and not replacing them in kind.

Thoughts? Should I ask for addresses as well, or are names sufficient?

Cheers,

Will

[dblanch100]

Sounds great Will!

Thanks!